About creatine....

[Franky Fargon]

Well,i would like to know for how much time can you take creatine before you need to take a break?.I've readed diffrent opinions about it,so i tought askin you guys.Some where talkin about kidney dammage and stuff.
Sorry for askin so many question latley
Thanks
Frank

[*big D*]

Originally Posted by Franky Fargon

Well,i would like to know for how much time can you take creatine before you need to take a break?.I've readed diffrent opinions about it,so i tought askin you guys.Some where talkin about kidney dammage and stuff.
Sorry for askin so many question latley
Thanks
Frank

Much debated topic, some take all year round but others as you say talk about kidney damage. I don't think many studies have been made to see if it has a major effect. Its personal opinion really, such as some idiots cycle protein shakes, not because of cost but because they think it has negative effects over time... there just stupid really in my opinion.

Many people however do cycle it though, something such as an 8 weeks on 4 weeks off might be used. Loading at 20mg for 5 days followed by 5mg maintenance for 8-12 weeks and then 4 weeks off.

[thesinner]

The concept of cycling creatine is more of an older method from back when there was poor understanding of processing, packaging, storage and functionality of amino acid by the people selling it. Because it hydrolyzes into a kidney-toxic compound, it may be wise to cycle on and off to prevent the onset of high creatinine levels. These levels will depend upon dosage sizes, the 'type' of creatine salt being used, and the individual taking them; therefore, there's really no scientific or concrete number to shoot for. Of course, that's not why the retards running the supplement industry in the early 1990's suggested cycling.

When you take creatine, it is stored in the sarcoplasm of the muscle tissue. This is a fluid portion of the muscle, where electrolytes and amino acids are stored. In order to maintain fluidity, water is stored into the muscle with the supplemented creatine. This leads to an end effect of more muscle mass and volume that's actually just occupied by H2O. What ends up happening is that your body rapidly gains muscle "mass and volume" and then it just sort of plateau's. Trainers and athletes recognized that and figured, "Hmm, my body must be getting used to the creatine. I should probably cycle off and 'resensitize' it." This is not the case; however, it just means that your cells have filled up with creatine and water as much as they can be.... now you just have to gain weight the old-fashioned way.

[*big D*]

Originally Posted by thesinner

The concept of cycling creatine is more of an older method from back when there was poor understanding of processing, packaging, storage and functionality of amino acid by the people selling it. Because it hydrolyzes into a kidney-toxic compound, it may be wise to cycle on and off to prevent the onset of high creatinine levels. These levels will depend upon dosage sizes, the 'type' of creatine salt being used, and the individual taking them; therefore, there's really no scientific or concrete number to shoot for. Of course, that's not why the retards running the supplement industry in the early 1990's suggested cycling.

When you take creatine, it is stored in the sarcoplasm of the muscle tissue. This is a fluid portion of the muscle, where electrolytes and amino acids are stored. In order to maintain fluidity, water is stored into the muscle with the supplemented creatine. This leads to an end effect of more muscle mass and volume that's actually just occupied by H2O. What ends up happening is that your body rapidly gains muscle "mass and volume" and then it just sort of plateau's. Trainers and athletes recognized that and figured, "Hmm, my body must be getting used to the creatine. I should probably cycle off and 'resensitize' it." This is not the case; however, it just means that your cells have filled up with creatine and water as much as they can be.... now you just have to gain weight the old-fashioned way.

Yep I was reffering to cycling for the fact that no-one knows the long term effects on the liver and not to the fact of weight gains stopping and so its supposebly loosing its effectiveness. Creatine could probably be used year round with continous effectiveness however the side effects of this are not known.

[thesinner]

Originally Posted by *big D*

Yep I was reffering to cycling for the fact that no-one knows the long term effects on the liver and not to the fact of weight gains stopping and so its supposebly loosing its effectiveness. Creatine could probably be used year round with continous effectiveness however the side effects of this are not known.

I agree, you had great input. The opening post simply spurred me to go into a creatine-rant.

[*big D*]

Originally Posted by thesinner

I agree, you had great input. The opening post simply spurred me to go into a creatine-rant.

Ye its ok lol. I fancy buying some creatine now I got some money, cheap stuff at 500g for £8/just under 13 dollars.

[thesinner]

In all honesty, the less expensive creatine monohydrate is generally the way to go. Thre's a lot of creatine products out there with various, unique creatine salts, but there's really not a whole lot of re-world data to support any claims they make. Out of all the clinical studies on creatine, 99.9% of them are on creatine monohydrate.

That's my other $0.02 on the situation. It's less expensive and much more likely to work.

[Franky Fargon]

Originally Posted by *big D*

Much debated topic, some take all year round but others as you say talk about kidney damage. I don't think many studies have been made to see if it has a major effect. Its personal opinion really, such as some idiots cycle protein shakes, not because of cost but because they think it has negative effects over time... there just stupid really in my opinion.

Many people however do cycle it though, something such as an 8 weeks on 4 weeks off might be used. Loading at 20mg for 5 days followed by 5mg maintenance for 8-12 weeks and then 4 weeks off.

Ok..But about the dosage,i mean i have some creatine caps that are 1200mg,on the bottle they say,take 3 before training then 3 after training.Thats a total of 9 Grams.Plus in the AX bulkin program they suggest a 10 g dosage in each post-workout shake...Is that a little abusive?I mean you where talkin about 20mg and 5mg...Did you meant 20g and 5g?
Thanks
Frank

[Joeflex73]

Originally Posted by Franky Fargon

Ok..But about the dosage,i mean i have some creatine caps that are 1200mg,on the bottle they say,take 3 before training then 3 after training.Thats a total of 9 Grams.Plus in the AX bulkin program they suggest a 10 g dosage in each post-workout shake...Is that a little abusive?I mean you where talkin about 20mg and 5mg...Did you meant 20g and 5g?
Thanks
Frank

As thesinner said, it really depends on the salt. For monohydrate, 5g/day is plenty. Some others like creatine magnesium chelate, 3g is fine too. A lot of people overdo it, but 3-5g a day is usually all you need.

[*big D*]

Originally Posted by Franky Fargon

Ok..But about the dosage,i mean i have some creatine caps that are 1200mg,on the bottle they say,take 3 before training then 3 after training.Thats a total of 9 Grams.Plus in the AX bulkin program they suggest a 10 g dosage in each post-workout shake...Is that a little abusive?I mean you where talkin about 20mg and 5mg...Did you meant 20g and 5g?
Thanks
Frank

Sorry I meant 10 for 5 days not 20, this is know as loading to get more creatine into the body. There is a limit into howmuch creatine the body can hold. Id say that 6 caps a day for a week followed by 4 or 5 caps a day for the rest of the time should be fine. After the loading phase more than 5or6grams is probably just wasting your money with little extra benefits.

[thesinner]

Originally Posted by Franky Fargon

Ok..But about the dosage,i mean i have some creatine caps that are 1200mg,on the bottle they say,take 3 before training then 3 after training.Thats a total of 9 Grams.Plus in the AX bulkin program they suggest a 10 g dosage in each post-workout shake...Is that a little abusive?I mean you where talkin about 20mg and 5mg...Did you meant 20g and 5g?
Thanks
Frank

There's really no need to do this "loading" phase, in my opinion. It merely speeds up the point of saturation in the muscle (i.e. the point where the body can't hold anymore creatine). You'll get there without "loading", it'll just take 1-3 weeks, as opposed to 5 days. You'll get less chances for injury.

From the sounds of it, it seems like you are taking creatine monohydrate capsules. The capsule size and dosing reminds me of Twinlabs Creatine Fuel, from back in the day. Check the label of your creatine to confirm. I would suggest the use of powdered creatine. Creatine powder is so inexpensive, that the contributing cost to encapsulate them costs much more than the creatine contained. A kilo of creatine monohydrate should be quite obtainable for less than $35 USD, which I can't see as the case for 833 of these creatine capsules.

[*big D*]

Originally Posted by thesinner

There's really no need to do this "loading" phase, in my opinion. It merely speeds up the point of saturation in the muscle (i.e. the point where the body can't hold anymore creatine). You'll get there without "loading", it'll just take 1-3 weeks, as opposed to 5 days. You'll get less chances for injury.

From the sounds of it, it seems like you are taking creatine monohydrate capsules. The capsule size and dosing reminds me of Twinlabs Creatine Fuel, from back in the day. Check the label of your creatine to confirm. I would suggest the use of powdered creatine. Creatine powder is so inexpensive, that the contributing cost to encapsulate them costs much more than the creatine contained. A kilo of creatine monohydrate should be quite obtainable for less than $35 USD, which I can't see as the case for 833 of these creatine capsules.

I allways load wether its neccessary or not, i usually use capsules but im gettin powder this time... 13USD for 500G :O. Il do the same as what I did with taurine... powder straight into mouth and drink a little bit of water :P i dont mess around with mixin it water lol

[thesinner]

That is the definition of delicious.

[kimswollwilliams]

old school baby... just like a mouth full of sand! lol... i haven't taken pure creatine monohydrate in awhile, but that's how i used to do it.. still take my glutamine like that-

[*big D*]

Originally Posted by kimswollwilliams

old school baby... just like a mouth full of sand! lol... i haven't taken pure creatine monohydrate in awhile, but that's how i used to do it.. still take my glutamine like that-

In my opinion glutamine mixed in water tastes disgusting so having to chug through a glass of water with it mixed in is disgusting... id rather just go through one short burst of the nasty taste and its gone.